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| (Pic : ITV Wales) |
Another week, another debate; this time from ITV Wales, hosted by Sharp End's Adrian Masters in Cardiff. For some reason it's not available online (though I watched it online), so you'll just have to take my word for it, although the ITV Wales website has a running commentary on what was said on their website.
If that's not enough, BBC Wales held their own debate yesterday evening between prospective MPs in Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire, but I'll skip that one (you can watch it here). Three opportunities to hear the same things over and over again is more than enough, so I'm done with the debates now.
Those of you who read my summaries of the other debates (BBC, ITV) know what comes next - listing the leaders/spokespeople in the order by which they appeared on stage. Some of the names might be unfamiliar.
Nathan Gill MEP (UKIP, Wales)
One line summary : "British women making sandwiches in British kitchens. Wouldn't that be nice?"
Nathan was proud to represent a party that puts the needs of "this country" first. Although toned-down compared to Nigel Farage, there was still a clear anti-immigration sentiment.
On health he had mixed personal experiences, but rubbished scaremongering about UKIP's support for privatising the NHS. UKIP have identified £35billion in savings without extra taxation, including £11billion in foreign aid "borrowed from our grandchildren". He made a good point that the fact 43% of people believe health is run by Westminster would help Labour.
He caused a few chuckles by saying he had a positive view on immigration as his wife is an immigrant (oh, and that business in Hull too). UKIP would welcome skilled migrants, but the public have never been asked if we want the country to change so quickly. UKIP were standing up for people concerned about immigration, and we can't control our borders with free EU movement.
Unsurprisingly, zero hour contracts were the EU's fault too. He said employers should be encouraged to give de facto full-time workers a full-time contract. The role of government should be to create a growth environment for entrepreneurs, as small businesses were the "real heroes" by employing more people than big companies. Nathan produced the "HIV moment" of the debate by asking, "Wouldn't it be nice if women could stay at home with the kids?"
Again unsurprisingly he took a negative view of devolution, saying the cost of administrating Wales has risen from £17million to £350million a year, and we need people who understand the pressures businesses face. He didn't support further Assembly powers – comparing it unflatteringly to children demanding more food – and called for the Welsh Government to get the basics (health, education, economy) right first.
6/10 - Cogent and articulate compared to Nigel Farage, but a bit...."odd". Gaffes aside, genuinely not bad.
Stephen Crabb – Conservatives
One line summary : "Let's stick with our long-term economic plan. Yes, even poor people."
Stephen admitted his government have had to make "difficult decisions", but Wales has made a lot of progress and needs to "stick with the plan".
He tore into the Welsh Government's health record, citing 1 in 7 people on waiting lists, the lack of a cancer drugs fund and hospital downgrades. He said the public should be rightly furious with Labour's "vice-like grip" on the NHS. Labour were given extra funds to spend on health but instead spent it on other things when Scotland and Northern Ireland didn't.
Stephen accepts Wales needs skilled immigration, but Labour's open door policy led to waves of unskilled immigrants which forced wages down. The UK needs a "firm but fair" policy instead. He admitted the Tories failed to keep their promises on immigration caps – caused by increased migration from the EU due to economic problems – though it would be wrong to walk away from them.
Stephen wants to see more jobs created with better pay, and the Tories helped those on low incomes by increasing the income tax threshold and minimum wage. He doesn't accept problems with zero hour contracts as they make up 3% of all contracts, however he would like to foster the conditions to mean people don't need them. He then accused Labour of politicising food banks.
On further Assembly powers, it didn't mean more red tape as it depends on how those powers are used. The Tory vision is of a "dynamic and entrepreneurial" Wales using its powers wisely in a stable devolution settlement. He wanted to end the "compulsive Cardiff Bay Bubble arguments" over further powers and focus on doorstep issues.
7/10 - Did a reasonably good job of defending his government's record, but didn't do enough to promote new policies.
Kirsty Williams AM (Lib Dem, Brecon & Radnor)
One line summary – "Don't cry for me Aberystwyth, the truth is I never left you...."
In an excellent Clegg-esque opening statement, Kirsty wants to provide opportunities for everyone, but it was tough going when trying to fix the economy, emphasising her own record in the Assembly like the pupil deprivation grant.
She was "sick and tired" of back and fore arguments on the Welsh NHS; although it's true there are problems - especially the ambulance service. The Lib Dems's spending plans would result in an extra £450million for the Welsh NHS, funding extra nurses and mental health. Kirsty called for a cross-party commission, but attacked the Conservatives and Plaid for rejecting it.
The Lib Dems will "never spread fear on immigration", as some sectors would collapse without foreign workers. Her party would seek to prosecute gangmasters, but it would be foolish to set immigration targets as they would be impossible to meet. The Lib Dems would also support a referendum when there's any moves to give powers to the EU.
Kirsty said the UK now has the fastest-growing economy in Europe, but more needs to be done, like taking the lowest-paid out of income tax, investment in apprenticeships and infrastructure projects like the Swansea tidal lagoon. She pointed out that Labour and the Tories voted down an Assembly amendment to ban zero hour contracts in the care sector, while Plaid Cymru run three councils that use them.
On devolution, the Lib Dems have supported "Home Rule" for over a century. In terms of what they would like to do, they would boost business by reforming business rates and seek to devolve power from Cardiff to local communities. Kirsty said there were opportunities to bring more powers through the Silk Commission, but Labour kept saying, "no, no, no."
8.5/10 - I was expecting a good performance and Kirsty delivered a particularly combative one.
Leanne Wood AM (Plaid, South Wales Central)
One line summary – "Okay Adrian, yur's what we're going to do, right.
Leanne (again) emphasises cuts which have punished the poorest, and although Plaid want to deal with the deficit, it should be dealt with over a longer period of time as part of a vision for a post-austerity Wales.
She praised NHS staff but said health being used as a political football didn't help anyone. Leanne said the doctor shortage has resulted in hospital centralisation, pledging an extra 1,000 doctors and an end to the postcode lottery for rare treatments. She welcomed Labour's commitment to an extra 1,000 NHS staff after they ridiculed Plaid's similar plans.
On immigration, Leanne had concerns about UKIP's views, but had greater concerns about "mainstream parties" jumping on the bandwagon, citing Labour's anti-immigration mug. Immigration causes pressures, but those pressures can be dealt with by ending austerity, strong trade unions and proper workforce planning. Leanne was "relaxed" about an EU referendum, but wants votes in the nations counted separately and withdrawal should only be binding if carried by all nations.
Plaid would raise the minimum wage to a living wage, citing 31% of children living in poverty and 79,000 using food banks. If there were more jobs, tax take would increase, but those jobs need to be secure and well-paid. She said the brunt of the cuts – up to 3/4 – had fallen on women and can be reversed through funding parity with Scotland, worth £1.2billion to Wales.
Although Plaid still support independence, it's difficult to achieve presently, so they would prefer powers and funding parity with Scotland. She believes the Assembly should have tax powers so the Welsh Government benefits from business growth – no government should be able to duck responsibility for raising the money it spends. Leanne wrote off the St David's Day "announcement" as being short of what it could've been, saying Plaid MPs, like SNP in Scotland, would fight to get the best deal for Wales.
8/10 – After being unable to play up her Welshness, Leanne produced her strongest and most confident performance of the three debates I've seen.
Owen Smith – Labour
One line summary – "Labour did this. Labour did this as well. Wales? Labour did that too."
Owen said there was a simple dichotomy between a Labour or Conservative government, and a choice between supporting the rich or supporting the poor with Labour redistributing wealth from the centre to Wales.
Labour are the "party of the NHS" as they invented it. He then (ironically) blamed the Tories for turning it into a political football, saying Labour had repeatedly had to rescue the NHS after Tory rule. Labour would roll back privatisation and raise an extra £120million for Wales via a mansion tax to help pay for 1,000 extra NHS professionals. He was sceptical of Plaid's "pop tax", preferring instead to rely on excessively high house prices in London and South East to raise funds.
In light of the disaster in the Mediterranean, Owen said we need to reflect on the motivations of those people seeking a safe haven. We need to get the controls right, but should address reasonable concerns. Labour will do this by introducing benefit restrictions. He admitted Labour underestimated the number of migrants from EU accession countries, but UKIP's "ugly language" was whipping up fears.
On the economy, there was an "epidemic" of low wages and job insecurity, and "only Labour" are proposing to do something about it by raising the minimum wage to £8 per hour and freezing energy prices in a fully-costed plan.
Owen played up the strength of the UK, citing the ability to tax one part to the benefit of other parts. He described independence as a pipe dream that would leave Wales worse off to the tune of £15billion. Labour pledge an extra £375million a year for Wales and a funding floor.
6/10 - Haughty. Doesn't seem to have caught up with how the election's going across the UK. Made an effort to promote policies, but all that stuck was "mansion tax".
Pippa Bartolotti – EnglandandWales Greens
One line summary – "I....THE....YES!!!! AUSTERITY! AND CUTS!!!!"
Oh boy. It became obvious rather quickly that Pippa isn't used to this, with a skittish opening statement. She described austerity as a con which diverts wealth to the elite, and the Greens "stoke a radical flame" as an alternative to the other parties.
The NHS is starved of money due to austerity and staff need to be properly paid. Greens would turn the "National Sick Service" into the "National Health Service" through a one-off £12billion investment, as the UK is spending nowhere near enough money when compared to other countries.
In fairness, Pippa is the only person who pointed out there's a net loss of people from Wales....then started to ramble about free travel promoting peace in Europe through cross-cultural exchange. She said "free for all" is a silly way to describe immigration as people should have a free choice where to live, with UKIP talking about a "1955 that never was". Pippa supports an in-out referendum on the EU because it's too long since last time and there's a need for reform.
On the economy, Pippa called for the abolition on zero hour contracts, and people were falling back onto welfare as a result of low wages. Too much money was being thrown away on quantitative easing and bankers bonuses. These problems can be solved with a universal citizens income which could make "zero hour contracts more attractive"(which is logically true but...!?).
Pippa didn't really answer the question on devolution and gave a rambling answer (again), but at least she said red tape depends on who's in power and the size of the budget. Pippa also highlighted the definite need to devolve powers over energy due to Wales' excellent potential for renewables.
5/10 – Provided much-needed entertainment but verged on self-parody. A rare "character" in Welsh politics but I can't decide if she's a rough diamond or just out of her depth.
Conclusions
Did that tell us anything new? Not really, but it was the most watchable of the three debates I've seen so far.
The feature that's been a little disappointing is that they've all trod the same road, subject wise. There's been little to nothing on the environment, transport and foreign affairs unless brought up in relation to subjects like immigration and the economy.
The first three rows of the audience were clearly reserved for party apparatchiks - Eluned Parrott and Llyr Gruffydd were definitely there. You could tell because they remained stony faced and only applauded after a particular leader has spoken. I'm starting to think these debates would work better in complete silence.
A lot's been said about social media reactions and using it to determine "who won". It risks becoming an echo chamber with everyone repeating to fellow travellers how their side is the best. It's pretty obvious who I back, but even then I prefer to be a bit more objective instead of trying to paper over cracks with excessive diabetes-inducing optimism. Twitter and Facebook (or blogs for that matter) will never swing an election.
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