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| (Pic : The Mirror) |
The second of the main TV debates of Election 2015 was held last night, this time consisting of the opposition party leaders – so no David Cameron bwark-bwark-bwark-bwaaaark or Nick Clegg, which damaged the legitimacy a little bit.
You can watch the action for yourselves at iPlayer (link).
As last time, I'm listing the party leaders from left to right as they appeared at their podiums.
Ed Miliband - Labour
One line summary : "To David Cameron I say this : Bring your Pogs, we're playing keepsies."
Ed attacked David Cameron's decision not to do the debate, and swung straight into listing policies. He tried to claim the centre ground by attacking both UKIP and the SNP – one wanting to take the UK out of the EU, the other wanting to break up the UK.
He admitted the UK should live within its means and his government would balance the books, just "do it in a different way" to the Conservatives, listing measures like clamping down on tax avoidance. He said some parties would promise no cuts, while UKIP would cut the top rate of tax. He was, however, tripped up consistently on where Labour's cuts would fall "outside protected areas".
On affordable housing he admitted the previous Labour government didn't build enough new homes. He called for private rental market reforms (which the Welsh Government are sort of doing) and will ban letting agents charging fees. Labour supports the principle of right to buy, but the £4billion costs of the Conservatives recent proposal haven't been accounted for.
Ed said the first duty of any Prime Minister is to keep the country safe, so he will retain an independent nuclear deterrent. On foreign policy he said he UK needs a Prime Minister who will be willing to say no to the United States when appropriate, pointing to his successful blocking of air strikes in Syria.
Labour are taking a tougher line on immigration, meaning immigrants will be banned from claiming benefits for two years. He wanted to stand up for working people by clamping down on the abuse of migrant labour to drive down wages. When the conversation drifted to health tourism (again), he accused UKIP of wanting to privatise the NHS.
On the question of a hung parliament, he wants a majority Labour government (unsurprisingly). He doesn't want to put the UK at risk, so explicitly ruled out an SNP coalition. He also said he wouldn't make "false promises" on funding for Wales.
At the end he told David Cameron to "step to" on a one-on-one debate.
7.5/10 – Came under attack but handled it fairly well. I enjoyed seeing him call David Cameron out, who I believe has made a blunder by not agreeing to the debate.
Leanne Wood AM (Plaid, South Wales Central)
One line summary : "When shall we three meet again? When Leanne Wood goes to Dunsinane. In Wales."
Leanne slammed the "grey stale politics" and appealed to the UK as a whole, saying Plaid would work with other parties on anti-austerity measures "for the good of all".
She doesn't believe there needs to be an artificial deadline on deficit reduction, pointing out that the UK's welfare state was built during a time when the post-war debt was massive, enabling the 1950s generation to "never have it so good". She accused Labour of letting the Conservatives off the hook by committing to their £30billion cuts, asking Ed Miliband if he would hold an emergency budget to reverse the cuts? He replied by listing policies like ending the bedroom tax and introducing a "mansion tax".
Plaid Cymru would oppose extending right to buy as it wouldn't solve homelessness, pointing to moves when Plaid Cymru were in government in Wales which gave councils experiencing housing pressures the power to suspend right to but. They would prefer councils to build more housing with any profits reinvested; other policies including rent caps and doubling council tax on holiday homes.
On Trident and defence, it "makes no sense" to spend £100billion when so many were in need (Rust in Peace....Trident?). She rejected the 2% of GDP NATO defence spending target, saying even the Prime Minister refused to commit to that figure. She said communities can't be made safer by pursing defence alone, and it needs strong diplomatic efforts. Where troops are used, they should be properly equipped and looked after when leaving service – praising the work of Elfyn Llwyd.
She said the risk to public services is cuts, not immigration, and the answer was to end austerity. Leanne pointed out that a mass exit of immigrants would collapse the NHS, with recruitment problems in Wales made worse due to immigration rules which prevented recruitment of doctors from the Indian subcontinent. She asked what skilled workers would want to come to the UK in an anti-immigrant climate?
On the issue of a hung parliament, Plaid Cymru want to end Tory rule (and refuse to support Tory-like policies from Labour), and she hoped progressive parties could work together. She hopes Plaid will be able to get a strong deal for Wales and funding parity with Scotland, worth £1.2billion.
7.5/10 – A clear improvement, and was willing to call Ed Miliband out. Leanne's getting good at this.
Natalie Bennett - EnglandandWales Green Party
One line summary : "We don...We don't...We don't have to take any more of thi....IT'S MY TURN!"
Natalie started off by praising the work of Caroline Lucas's opposition to privatisation. She said the Greens offered a vision of fairness and were "the real challengers".
On the question of debt and deficits being borne by the young, the Greens want to reduce student debts and reduce the cost of housing, saying Labour's plan to reduce tuition fees by a third was "a classic Labour halfway house". The Greens plan to reduce the deficit to 1% of GDP, but not at the expense of investing in infrastructure and renewable energy.
On housing itself, Natalie said homes have become financial assets not places to live. The Greens want to build 500,000 homes and introduce both rent caps and secure tenures. She believes the housing market has failed and the solution was a simple matter of building more homes (which is t strange to hear from a Green considering where those homes would be built).
On defence and foreign affairs, Natalie accepts the world has become more dangerous but nuclear weapons wouldn't make her feel safer. The UK needs to take a lead in foreign policy instead of following others by ridding the UK of WMDs. Contrary to UKIP, the Greens believe it's better to spend the money on aid and supporting democracy, also saying (to applause) that the arms industry should be reined-in, with sales to the Middle East and backing to Saudi Arabia curbed.
As an immigrant, she made the UK her home and went into politics to improve that home. UKIP wants to demonise the immigrant cleaners and doctors who live in her diverse London community – 40% of NHS staff being born abroad. The UK needs a humane and fair immigration system, citing examples of non-EU spouses being unable to live in the UK. In the end it descended into a chaotic shouting match, with Natalie channelling her inner Onielar and shouting down the microphone that it was her turn.
The Greens are prepared to work with Labour on a vote by vote basis, but the UK needs a strong alternative to the Tories, and that isn't Labour. Natalie arguably made the best closing statement by saying, "We don't have to take any more of this" and appealing directly to disaffected Lib Dems.
6.5/10 - A lot better, and bolder, than last time. A good effort.
Nicola Sturgeon MSP (SNP, Glasgow Southside)
One line summary : "Tories, Tories, Tories....Oot! Oot! Oot!"
As last time, Nicola said she would make Scotland's voice heard, but would work "with people of like mind" in the interests of the whole UK.
Nicola accepted it was important to get the deficit down, but economic policy should match social policy. The undermining of public services means it's time to change policy. The deficit taking longer to pay off would be a price worth paying to invest in infrastructure and innovation, and she described Ed Miliband's cuts as "jargon". She called for voters to elect parties who would hold Labour to account and make them bolder, saying 1 million more children could be living in poverty by 2020 if austerity continues.
On housing, the SNP Scottish Government are on track to meet their affordable housing targets, and housing was one of the biggest issues of the campaign. She called for protection for private renters, but opposes extending the right to buy, calling it "one of the worst ideas I've ever heard".
Taking a more moderate stance than either Plaid or the Greens, Nicola said national security was of paramount importance, citing cuts to conventional forces and the fact the UK "as an island nation" doesn't have any maritime patrol aircraft. Spending £100billion on a Trident replacement would be the wrong priority and she called for investment in conventional forces instead.
Again, taking a more moderate stance on immigration, Nicola acknowledged the need for immigration controls. However, she rejected Farage's assertion that immigration was the root cause of every problem, and the response to pressures has to be to build more homes and invest in services. She hoped if Ed Miliband becomes Prime Minister he would repeal restrictions on post-study visas in order to retain talented graduates.
On post-election arrangements in Westminster, the SNP want to see the back of the Tories, with Nicola explicitly ruling out ever doing a deal with them. She wants a progressive UK government, and made an offer to Ed Miliband to use an anti-Tory majority in Westminster to "lock David Cameron out".
9/10 – Didn't break a sweat. The clear "winner" again. Has been cruelly denied the chance of being Prime Minister of an independent Scotland.
Nigel Farage MEP (UKIP, SE England)
One line summary : "I AM THE BEST CHARACTER! I AM BETTER THAN BOTH THE SALAMI AND THE BOLOGNA COMBINED!"
Nigel started by emphasising UKIP has a fully-costed manifesto, and he can cut taxes to boost economic prosperity by repatriating Britain's money. He made an appeal to both left and right wing voters by saying he "Will tell it as it is" and will stand up for the little man.
Nobody wants to talk about doubling of national debt, with interest payments now amounting to more than defence spending. He said the left-wing parties would drive the UK into bankruptcy. He repeated that no more British money would go to foreigners (or Scots) and that UKIP's manifesto is the only one to have been independently verified by a think tank.
On housing he – surprise, surprise – pointed to pressures caused by immigration, calling for social housing to available to UK nationals only. He called for a "brownfield building boom" then, inexplicably, turned on the audience, saying – WWE style – they were "too left wing" and that "the real audience is sitting at home".
The UK couldn't afford to get rid of Trident as the world was in its most dangerous place since the end of the Cold War, saying many people would not believe a Conservative Prime Minister would reduce the British army to 82,000 troops. Nigel said the 2% defence spending target should be met and should be thought of as an insurance policy, adding that veterans should be properly looked after too. However, he said the EU was attempting to usurp NATO by forming a EU army.
On immigration, he advocates an Australian-style points system to decide "the quality and quantity" of the people who come here, via a fair and ethical policy. On NHS workers, he asked why weren't we training out own workers? Cancer was this week's HIV – no money for treatments because of immigrants.
In finishing he said the EU question was the most important one, and that the nationalists alongside him don't believe in true independence because they support EU membership. He said Labour used to think the EU was bad but now wouldn't even offer a referendum. He played to English voters' concerns by saying it would be impossible for Ed Miliband to be Prime Minister without SNP support.
6/10 – An appeal to his core vote which didn't get the response he was looking for. Gets 2 points for being an entertaining clown.
Conclusions
I don't know about you, but compared to last time this was better.
David Dimbleby claimed, following the complaints by Nigel Farage, that the audience was drafted by an independent polling firm. I don't want to give truck to UKIP's tin foil hat theories ( and I wasn't the only person to notice this) but the audience's behaviour was indeed strange. It seemed everything from Nicola Sturgeon in particular got "arf-arf-arf" clapping, yet there was a stony silence for Farage's bits, when during the ITV debate he said the same things and got applause.
Ed Miliband will come out of this with minimal damage. He coped with being attacked from the left and right and come across as a reasonable centrist (stealing Nick Clegg's thunder in the process), even Prime Ministerial.
Several claims made during the campaign have been cleared up to – the SNP would not support the Tories in any way, shape or form, while Labour rule out any formal coalition with the SNP. This could be a strategic blunder as Ed Miliband knows he can count on SNP, Green and Plaid support regardless the result, but at the same time, despite Labour's bluster, they are looking increasingly unlikely to win a majority – even a slim one.
Explicitly ruling out coalitions at this point seems like poor judgement and you certainly get the feeling Jim Murphy is being thrown under a bus to shore up Labour support in England.
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