They took their bloody
time getting to it – this was originally raised as far back as
February 2013 (Could safe standing be coming to Wales?) - but last
Wednesday, the National Assembly debated a cross-party
motion on "safe standing" at football stadiums.
The motion :
What is "safe standing"?
I went over this last time around, but it's worth briefly covering again.
Terracing was phased out within top-flight EnglishandWelsh football grounds following the 1989 Hillsborough Disaster and subsequent Taylor Report. Most terraced areas were either rebuilt or, as many clubs have done, entire grounds were replaced with all-seater stadiums – the Liberty Stadium replacing The Vetch, for example.
Because standing is popular, yet forbidden, "safe standing" is seen as a way to address common concerns relating to terracing like overcrowding and crushing, allowing a reintroduction within modern stadiums. It usually takes the form of "rail seats", where rows of seats are connected to waist-high rails then folded away during games to create two rows of terracing (as shown in the photo above).
It would make surges impossible because every standing supporter would be near a rail and every two rows of spectators would be divided. This would also enable the authorities to better control numbers coming and going, and whenever the stadium needs to be converted to an all-seater format (i.e. for European competitions or concerts), the seats are simply unlocked.
The Debate (link)
Ann Jones AM (Lab, Vale of Clwyd), started by highlighting how stadiums have changed down the years. Ann said it was contradictory that terracing is banned at top-flight football grounds, yet remains at grounds that host other sports - like St Helen's new stadium, Langtree Park (image), which has terracing for 8,000 fans; or closer to home, Cardiff Arms Park and Parc y Scarlets. She said, "football fans want, and deserve, a choice when it comes to sitting or standing", with 92% of fans surveyed (not explained further) supporting the reintroduction of terracing, with stewards at football games facing, "a thankless task....of trying to persuade their club’s most passionate supporters to sit down". Ann believed the Football Association of Wales (FAW) had an opportunity, "to show the fans....that there is a real chance to pioneer a trial period of safe standing within the Welsh Premier League."
Suzy Davies AM (Con, South Wales West) said she was sceptical due to the impact of the Hillsborough disaster and didn't want to "support anything that would jeopardise football grounds becoming welcoming places for children, women, people with particular vulnerabilities or disabilities." Suzy's also – in the proper Wenglish – "only a dwt", raising an overlooked issue in this debate of indirect discrimination against short adults.
After seeing the roadshow demonstration, Suzy changed her mind, as it was "completely different from the death-trap terraces that I remember", while measures can be put in place for disabled supporters. She didn't support a "rush to safe standing", but concluded by saying that it should be allowed as part of planned stadium refurbishments.
Mike Hedges AM (Lab, Swansea East) played devil's advocate and was the only AM who spoke out against safe standing. He acknowledged that standing at football games was popular, saying it would "increase the capacity of football grounds without the need for any additional building work". However, he said safe standing was an "oxymoron", citing "the surge; the crush; overcrowding; hooliganism; and the charge" and going into detail as to the causes of these, reminising about crowd problems at an FA Cup tie between Swansea Town and Arsenal in 1968.
Leader of the Opposition, Andrew Davies AM (Con, South Wales Central) – one of the more vocal supporters of safe standing - pointed out that if Mike had been to the FSF demonstration he would realise his views were 30 years out of date.
Mike countered by saying that all-seater stands had provided a more mixed set of spectators and improved crowd management, concluding that reintroducing terracing would be "a serious and retrograde step".
Plaid Cymru's sport spokesperson, Bethan Jenkins AM (Plaid, South Wales West), cited safe standing's widespread use in the German Bundesliga, using the example of (it's pronounced "Bor-oo-see-ya", Bethan) Borussia Dortmund's Signal Iduna Park, which has a terraced capacity of ~27,000. She noted that these standing areas can be quickly converted to seated areas to meet UEFA competition requirements too.
Bethan said clubs like Dortmund use CCTV and ticketing information to control crowds and pick out trouble-makers, and even if terracing has a "perceived correlation with hooliganism....improvement in technology, policing tactics and crowd behaviour need to be taken into account."
Bethan also raised the long-held belief amongst supporters that safe standing could lead to cheaper tickets as standing areas accommodate more fans. She said another possible benefit would be allowing, "those people who know that they will become more passionate than other people....to be in that area together" (aka "singing sections" and Ultras). She called for a "fact-based public debate" and "a realisation that time has moved on".
Aled Roberts AM (Lib Dem, North Wales) made the grave mistake of bringing up Mickey Thomas's 1992 fluke. That's unparliamentary behaviour if ever I saw it. Despite his own experiences of terrace troubles during a match between Wrexham and Crystal Palace in the 1970s, he said safe standing "is shown to work" and is being introduced to the Polish Ekstraklasa despite serious hooliganism problems there. Aled said (I don't know if it's true or not) the UK Government had blocked legislation on this - and it's a difference within the Coalition - calling on Welsh Conservatives to lobby Whitehall Tories to change their mind.
In his response, Culture Minister John Griffiths (Lab, Newport East) said that as a Newport County supporter he often stands himself, but "we have seen major improvements to spectator safety and comfort as a consequence of....legislation (Football Supporters Act 1989) being introduced" emphasising the lack of clarity on the issue despite safe standing being popular with supporters.
He said it isn't a "straightforward matter to resolve" but "safety is paramount". All in all John remained neutral, believing the "matter of a pilot of safe standing in Wales is for clubs, owners and supporters to consider."
Andrew Davies spoke well and at length on all the issues covered. He paid tribute to his researcher Vincent Bailey, who lives in hope that - as Spurs look on jealously from under the shadow cast by the Emirates Stadium - a redeveloped White Hart Lane could have safe standing areas.
It's very rare to hear The Arsenal mentioned in the Senedd chamber (three times during the debate in fact), and I can say that all Arsenal supporters have fond memories of White Hart Lane too. 71, 2004.
Mike Hedges then raised a valid question; whether any police forces, safety officers or licencing authorities support safe standing? Andrew said he hadn't "heard of any that have objected to it". He added that there was a strong case to hold a trial specifically in Wales because the Liberty Stadium and Cardiff City Stadium have medium-sized capacities, and it would therefore be easier to trial it here than a larger ground like Old Trafford.
Andrew wound up the debate by saying, "We see it (terracing) at rugby, we see it at horse racing tracks where fans are allowed to stand and enjoy their sport, and I fail to see why football fans should be treated differently."
The motion was approved by 26 votes to 1 with 20 abstentions (including, bizarrely, Mike Hedges).
The Issues Raised
The motion :
- Noted the "overwhelming appetite" amongst supporters to re-introduce terracing.
- Called upon the Welsh Government to work with sports bodies to promote safe standing areas at football grounds.
- Called upon the UK Government to consider a safe standing pilot in Wales.
What is "safe standing"?
 |
| AMs were recently able to see close-up how "safe standing" works. (Pic : Football Supporters Federation) |
I went over this last time around, but it's worth briefly covering again.
Terracing was phased out within top-flight EnglishandWelsh football grounds following the 1989 Hillsborough Disaster and subsequent Taylor Report. Most terraced areas were either rebuilt or, as many clubs have done, entire grounds were replaced with all-seater stadiums – the Liberty Stadium replacing The Vetch, for example.
Because standing is popular, yet forbidden, "safe standing" is seen as a way to address common concerns relating to terracing like overcrowding and crushing, allowing a reintroduction within modern stadiums. It usually takes the form of "rail seats", where rows of seats are connected to waist-high rails then folded away during games to create two rows of terracing (as shown in the photo above).
It would make surges impossible because every standing supporter would be near a rail and every two rows of spectators would be divided. This would also enable the authorities to better control numbers coming and going, and whenever the stadium needs to be converted to an all-seater format (i.e. for European competitions or concerts), the seats are simply unlocked.
The Debate (link)
 |
| The all-seater Liberty Stadium hosts both football and rugby, but it's argued that there's a contradiction in that top flight football is explicity banned from using terracing. (Pic : Daily Mirror) |
Ann Jones AM (Lab, Vale of Clwyd), started by highlighting how stadiums have changed down the years. Ann said it was contradictory that terracing is banned at top-flight football grounds, yet remains at grounds that host other sports - like St Helen's new stadium, Langtree Park (image), which has terracing for 8,000 fans; or closer to home, Cardiff Arms Park and Parc y Scarlets. She said, "football fans want, and deserve, a choice when it comes to sitting or standing", with 92% of fans surveyed (not explained further) supporting the reintroduction of terracing, with stewards at football games facing, "a thankless task....of trying to persuade their club’s most passionate supporters to sit down". Ann believed the Football Association of Wales (FAW) had an opportunity, "to show the fans....that there is a real chance to pioneer a trial period of safe standing within the Welsh Premier League."
Suzy Davies AM (Con, South Wales West) said she was sceptical due to the impact of the Hillsborough disaster and didn't want to "support anything that would jeopardise football grounds becoming welcoming places for children, women, people with particular vulnerabilities or disabilities." Suzy's also – in the proper Wenglish – "only a dwt", raising an overlooked issue in this debate of indirect discrimination against short adults.
After seeing the roadshow demonstration, Suzy changed her mind, as it was "completely different from the death-trap terraces that I remember", while measures can be put in place for disabled supporters. She didn't support a "rush to safe standing", but concluded by saying that it should be allowed as part of planned stadium refurbishments.
 |
| Clubs like Cardiff City have had serious problems with hooliganism, and both Mike Hedges AM and Suzy Davies AM argued that all-seater stadiums have diversified football crowds. (Pic : news.yahoo.com) |
Mike Hedges AM (Lab, Swansea East) played devil's advocate and was the only AM who spoke out against safe standing. He acknowledged that standing at football games was popular, saying it would "increase the capacity of football grounds without the need for any additional building work". However, he said safe standing was an "oxymoron", citing "the surge; the crush; overcrowding; hooliganism; and the charge" and going into detail as to the causes of these, reminising about crowd problems at an FA Cup tie between Swansea Town and Arsenal in 1968.
Leader of the Opposition, Andrew Davies AM (Con, South Wales Central) – one of the more vocal supporters of safe standing - pointed out that if Mike had been to the FSF demonstration he would realise his views were 30 years out of date.
Mike countered by saying that all-seater stands had provided a more mixed set of spectators and improved crowd management, concluding that reintroducing terracing would be "a serious and retrograde step".
 |
| Big German clubs like Borussia Dortmund make routine use of safe standing, wheeling out seats when they compete in European competitions. (Pic : schwatzgelb.de) |
Plaid Cymru's sport spokesperson, Bethan Jenkins AM (Plaid, South Wales West), cited safe standing's widespread use in the German Bundesliga, using the example of (it's pronounced "Bor-oo-see-ya", Bethan) Borussia Dortmund's Signal Iduna Park, which has a terraced capacity of ~27,000. She noted that these standing areas can be quickly converted to seated areas to meet UEFA competition requirements too.
Bethan said clubs like Dortmund use CCTV and ticketing information to control crowds and pick out trouble-makers, and even if terracing has a "perceived correlation with hooliganism....improvement in technology, policing tactics and crowd behaviour need to be taken into account."
Bethan also raised the long-held belief amongst supporters that safe standing could lead to cheaper tickets as standing areas accommodate more fans. She said another possible benefit would be allowing, "those people who know that they will become more passionate than other people....to be in that area together" (aka "singing sections" and Ultras). She called for a "fact-based public debate" and "a realisation that time has moved on".
Aled Roberts AM (Lib Dem, North Wales) made the grave mistake of bringing up Mickey Thomas's 1992 fluke. That's unparliamentary behaviour if ever I saw it. Despite his own experiences of terrace troubles during a match between Wrexham and Crystal Palace in the 1970s, he said safe standing "is shown to work" and is being introduced to the Polish Ekstraklasa despite serious hooliganism problems there. Aled said (I don't know if it's true or not) the UK Government had blocked legislation on this - and it's a difference within the Coalition - calling on Welsh Conservatives to lobby Whitehall Tories to change their mind.
In his response, Culture Minister John Griffiths (Lab, Newport East) said that as a Newport County supporter he often stands himself, but "we have seen major improvements to spectator safety and comfort as a consequence of....legislation (Football Supporters Act 1989) being introduced" emphasising the lack of clarity on the issue despite safe standing being popular with supporters.
He said it isn't a "straightforward matter to resolve" but "safety is paramount". All in all John remained neutral, believing the "matter of a pilot of safe standing in Wales is for clubs, owners and supporters to consider."
 |
| If safe standing were permitted, would a redeveloped White Hart Lane be the first ground equipped with it? (Pic : premierleague.com) |
Andrew Davies spoke well and at length on all the issues covered. He paid tribute to his researcher Vincent Bailey, who lives in hope that - as Spurs look on jealously from under the shadow cast by the Emirates Stadium - a redeveloped White Hart Lane could have safe standing areas.
It's very rare to hear The Arsenal mentioned in the Senedd chamber (three times during the debate in fact), and I can say that all Arsenal supporters have fond memories of White Hart Lane too. 71, 2004.
Mike Hedges then raised a valid question; whether any police forces, safety officers or licencing authorities support safe standing? Andrew said he hadn't "heard of any that have objected to it". He added that there was a strong case to hold a trial specifically in Wales because the Liberty Stadium and Cardiff City Stadium have medium-sized capacities, and it would therefore be easier to trial it here than a larger ground like Old Trafford.
Andrew wound up the debate by saying, "We see it (terracing) at rugby, we see it at horse racing tracks where fans are allowed to stand and enjoy their sport, and I fail to see why football fans should be treated differently."
The motion was approved by 26 votes to 1 with 20 abstentions (including, bizarrely, Mike Hedges).
The Issues Raised
 |
| Even the most well-supported Welsh Premier League clubs - like Rhyl and Bangor City - don't attract the sorts of crowds necessary to determine if safe standing really would be safe. (Pic : lilywhites.northwalesblogs.co.uk) |
- Trialling safe standing in the Welsh Premier League – No offense to Ann Jones and her beloved Rhyl FC, but crowds in the Welsh Premier League are often measured in the hundreds, not tens of thousands. The only crush threat is the queue to the burger van. It wouldn't be a fair test. This would have to be trialled at a professional club in the higher tiers of the English pyramid – ultimately that means Cardiff or Swansea.
- Short adults and disabilities - Being only 5ft7 myself I know all too well what it's like to get stuck behind a human barn door at a football match, and it's not as if they make stilettos in my size. The logical solution to this would be to make terraces steeper so everyone – even the vertically disadvantaged – can see over the row in front. But that might be too expensive and cause safety concerns. It shouldn't affect disabled people as most clubs have designated disabled areas or wheelchair spaces which offer a clear view of the pitch. Supporters would still have a choice to remain in a seated area too.
- Policing & Crowd Control – I don't think Mike Hedges' arguments on this hold much water, except his question on whether police would back a return of terracing. I'd bet they wouldn't, and if terracing were reintroduced, police forces might consider charging clubs more to police games, deploying extra resources which would be better used elsewhere.
- Safety Certificates & Licensing - Some grounds - especially in built-up areas, like Arsenal's Emirates Stadium - have strict controls on the number of spectators allowed in due to the geography around the stadium or issues like transport. Even if a safe standing area held more spectators, the total number of supporters in the stadium could still be capped by safety certificates, making it a wasted effort if the goal of safe standing is to increase crowds. At the very least clubs that install large banks of safe standing would have to reapply for safety certificates.
- Ticket Prices & Costs – As I said last time, I don't think it's a given that ticket prices would automatically come down. Maybe smaller clubs would charge less to get people through the gates, but top-tier clubs might see it as an "experience" to sell to fans and the laws of supply and demand come into effect. Low ticket prices at German clubs are as much a result of how those clubs are owned (many are supporter-owned, and ownership by a single individual is banned) not just through the use of safe standing areas.
So, in the end, the National
Assembly formally backed the promotion of safe standing and a
pilot in Wales - though neither Welsh or British governments are bound by it. Whether a pilot goes ahead or not will likely come
down to lobbying by the Culture Minister (who seems to want to wait
for a cue from clubs) or a similar call in Westminster. I'm
sure the campaign to bring back safe standing will see this
support as useful too.
All of the speakers made valid and interesting points – for and against – demonstrating an ability to disagree with each other without resorting to the hyperbole and answer dodging that plagues other Assembly sessions. I'm a fan of these topical member's debates and, in my opinion, they should be held more often and are of more use than the usual Wednesday afternoon opposition debates.
Neither the Welsh Government or National Assembly have had the best of times over the last fortnight. This debate showed - even if the legislative session draws to a close with a dark cloud hanging over it – that maybe, just maybe, there's hope yet.
All of the speakers made valid and interesting points – for and against – demonstrating an ability to disagree with each other without resorting to the hyperbole and answer dodging that plagues other Assembly sessions. I'm a fan of these topical member's debates and, in my opinion, they should be held more often and are of more use than the usual Wednesday afternoon opposition debates.
Neither the Welsh Government or National Assembly have had the best of times over the last fortnight. This debate showed - even if the legislative session draws to a close with a dark cloud hanging over it – that maybe, just maybe, there's hope yet.
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